Audience Participation: Why Don’t Readers Comment On Fiction?
K. Tempest Bradford
This month, Fantasy Magazine online turned one year old. It was in November of last year that we started publishing fiction and non-fiction on a weekly basis. Last June we launched the second version of our design and revamped the non-fiction offerings a bit. Over this time traffic has increased and we’ve gained more new readers, plus had some really amazing discussions (particularly on Fridays).
I’m really happy we have such a high level of participation from our readers, but we can’t help but notice that the comments section of our fiction is sparse or non-existent in many cases. We know you’re reading the stories (I’m obsessive about stats), but you rarely comment on them.
This is not limited to Fantasy, I know. Most online magazines offer a way for readers to comment on stories, whether on the page itself or in a forum topic. The only place where I see consistent commentary on stories is the Escape Artists forum. The audience there is vocal and brutal, but very engaged (which is awesome).
Recently, Sheila Williams mentioned that though the Asimov’s forums are very active, readers rarely discussed the stories.
…mostly they get on there and argue politics; we call it the basement. …they hardly ever talk about the stories. There are a handful of dedicated readers that talk about the stories, but they are the minority. What I have seen in the past in the ’70s and the ’80s, there were dozens of letters coming in a month. We don’t get the letters anymore. I think back in the ’80s we had more correspondence coming in on the stories than I see in the comments on the forum.
You would think that there would be far more commentary on stories on the Internet, considering how easy it is to broadcast your opinions to the world. Yet in the case of SF/F mags, we seem to see less.
I’m sure this doesn’t mean that readers aren’t liking the stories. They may be congratulating the author personally or writing opinions on their own blogs. That’s fine, too. But we, the editors, really like seeing what the readers think, too.
If you read a great story online or in print, what moves you to comment on it at the magazine itself? Assuming they’ve made it easy by providing a forum post or other comment section, what would make you take that extra step? What keeps you from doing it? Is there something editors can or should do to encourage readers to comment?
1 • Autumn said:
November 25th, 2008 at 2:06 pm, permalink
I only comment on the stories that really WOW me. These are the stories that are so good, I go and look up the authors’ other works and then BUY them. I read Holly Phillips story here (uhh, the one about the little door and the raccoon. Title escapes me) and I fell in love with her use of language. I got “Palace of Repose” out of the library and bought “The Burning Girl” quick as a blink.
Most of the time, I find I don’t have much to say.
Maybe if readers knew that the authors were willing to respond to questions and comments, they would be more liable to leave them. I, for one, don’t want to badger any authors- although I always have questions I’d love to pick their brains with!
2 • Justine Larbalestier said:
November 25th, 2008 at 2:21 pm, permalink
I rarely comment on stories I read. I think it’s because it takes me a long time to digest them. Often the full effects of a story won’t hit me until days or sometimes weeks after I’ve read it.
3 • Nick Mamatas said:
November 25th, 2008 at 2:30 pm, permalink
Can’t argue with taste.
You can argue with facts and opinions.
It’s also tedious when an author shows up to talk about his or her walk, or even worse, to defend it. It’s amateur hour whenever that happens.
4 • Stace said:
November 25th, 2008 at 2:47 pm, permalink
Letters to print publications have a chance of showing up in the front of the magazine.
Likewise, comments on the Escape Artists blog or forums have a chance of being included in the podcast.
Could this chance at “official” acknowledgment for the value of your opinion encourage people to share more comments?
Otherwise, the only thing you have to look forward to is people flaming your opinions …
5 • Jeremy Tolbert said:
November 25th, 2008 at 2:48 pm, permalink
The Escape Artists forums are full of discussion about the stories. I wonder why?
6 • Jeremy Tolbert said:
November 25th, 2008 at 2:49 pm, permalink
I should finish reading the post before I comment, eh. Good point, Stace.
7 • Randy Henderson said:
November 25th, 2008 at 2:53 pm, permalink
I think it comes down to a few things:
1. Non-fiction topics are ones that you may have thought about or had opinions on prior to reading about it on Fantasy. Fiction is something you are experiencing for the first time.
2. Non-fiction topics you can express an opinion about, and while that opinion is subjective, it has the potential to be a “truth.” It is a (hopefully) informed and intelligent opinion or thought on a subject such as what makes a good or bad adaptation. Such an opinion can be supported with examples, and expressed as an authoritative “fact.” It can be debated in a lively exchange with other genre fans. And the poster may achieve a kind of “authoritative” status on the topic.
To express opinions on a specific piece of fiction, however, is to express only your personal experience of that work, which feels somewhat less relevant as a public statement, and less something that can be debated with others than taking a stance on a non-fiction subject. It feels more like a private conversation between the reader and the author than a public discussion and engagement with your genre-loving peers. You could, I suppose, compare the story to other works, or open a debate as to what the theme of the story is, or ponder the author’s psychological state when writing the story, etc. But since the author can simply say, “No, that’s not true,” it just isn’t the same.
Aside from being a chance to give kudos to the author, and express appreciation for the story, I agree with Autumn that at best such posts can be an opportunity to have a conversation with the author, a chance for the readers to ask the kinds of questions that you often post in your Author Spotlight sections, or to mention “If you liked this, then read X” recommendations.
Perhaps you could add a rating system to the stories that allows readers to rate how much they liked or did not like a story, would they/ did they recommend the story to friends, and an optional private feedback section. These ratings would NOT be posted online, as that would be a form of torture for the authors, but the magazine could use that to get a sense of what your readers like and don’t like to read, and could perhaps even use it to compile the top 5 most popular stories of the year lists in December, etc.
At least, that’s my opinion.
8 • Mike Kabongo said:
November 25th, 2008 at 3:54 pm, permalink
For the most part _I_ only comment when something is at one or the other ends of my enjoyment spectrum. I might still mention it elsewhere, I rarely comment on blogs or fiction.
9 • Stephanie Leary said:
November 25th, 2008 at 4:04 pm, permalink
I can’t form an articulate remark three nanoseconds after I’ve finished reading the last line, and that’s about when my eye falls on the comment box. I could do it a week later, but by then I’m nowhere near the website in question, and it wouldn’t occur to me to come back and write something.
I *would* click a rating widget of some sort. I might leave the window open while I do other things for a few minutes and then rate the story, but you know — still much sooner. I can pretty much immediately give you a thumbs up/thumbs down opinion. Anything more than that would require time to process.
10 • Randy Henderson said:
November 25th, 2008 at 4:08 pm, permalink
Okay. I posted a comment to the “When I was a Witch” story that is my best attempt to blend my opinion of the story as a reader, and a comment that might result in reader debate.
11 • Randy Henderson said:
November 25th, 2008 at 4:14 pm, permalink
I agree with Stephanie @9. It is in part an issue of timing. You can post something, but it is at best first impressions, and may not be all that well thought out.
I considered that the comments might be used as a kind of Book Club option, where a group of readers agree to read a particular magazine’s weekly story and all exchange ideas on it online, but even Book Clubs allow you time to absorb the material and form an opinion on it. I don’t know if there is a clever way to do a Book Club style format online, where you enable readers to take the story, read it, consider it, and then all congregate for postings similar to Fantasy Friday a few days later. Perhaps a separate link on the side for This Weeks Story Discussion or something where this week’s discussion is on a story from last week. I don’t know. Totally brainstorming here.
12 • J. T. Glover said:
November 25th, 2008 at 4:26 pm, permalink
Ye Old Letters Page is/was a separate beast from the “actual” content, demarcated by spacing and a header that implied THIS IS READER SPACE. I am deeply ambivalent about consuming reader commentary simultaneously with or immediately following reading a story. Should such comments be considered as equivalent to letters to the editor? Scribbled notes in the margins of a book? Zits scattered across a pretty face?
There’s also a limit to how much time people can spend in how many places. If every mag has a forum, and then people have a blog/LJ/twitter/myspace, and they’re on a forum or two, and they hang out at Tor or Absolute Write, well… ya gotta make choices.
Plus, you know, the taste thing.
13 • aerodynamic Kitten said:
November 25th, 2008 at 4:38 pm, permalink
One of the reasons I don’t comment on fiction is because I almost feel as if it’s a sacred work. When the story ends, so it should end: at least that’s what my brain tells me.
Also, if it’s a story I particularly like, I’ll take a few days to let the concepts settle and my dreams re-imagine things. If I don’t like the story, I close the browser window and that’s the end of that.
But as for ideas how to make people comment, maybe you could bribe readers with a million dollars from the president of a Nigerian bank. That oughta do it.
14 • S. F. Murphy said:
November 25th, 2008 at 5:08 pm, permalink
Per Asimov’s and stories, the problem is that you can comment on the ones with problems and guess what?
The editor buys more of the same flaw ridden stories.
One point that Williams omitted is that once upon a time there were discussions about the stories at Asimov’s. In fact, it used to be that the standing protocol (informal) was to talk about the ones we liked as subscribers and if you go looking around in the threads, you’ll see that.
Since Williams took over the amount of story based commentary has dropped off (and I notice since I stopped going there it hasn’t picked up either).
In other forums, forex, Strange Horizons, commenting is pointless. They have a mindset on what they’ll purchase and as a reader, frankly, I have other things I can spend my time reading.
And the funny thing is that it all depends on the story. I’ve seen plenty of stories generate lengthy discussions at forums and elsewhere. TTA Press at Interzone has had some lively and civil discussions.
Thus, I’d argue this.
If they story didn’t get any commentary, well, it must not have moved people enough to react one way or the other.
That is a writer problem, not a reader problem.
The other problem is writers cheering on other writers (and to be fair, I’ve gotten some benefit from this). It tends to create a rather overinflated sense of story value. Thus I tend, especially with my stories, to watch for commentary from actual readers, as opposed to aspirant/published writers.
My two cents.
S. F. Murphy
15 • Tablesaw said:
November 25th, 2008 at 5:35 pm, permalink
Forums are forums, and they’ve got their own set of challenges regarding how to get them going, how to spur topics, etc. But comments I know a bit more about.
In general, I agree with #12. When I read nonfiction or opinion, here or elsewhere, I’ll add a comment if I feel I have something to add to the discussion that I feel future readers of the page would benefit from. But when I read a story (which, I’ll freely admit, I don’t do here as often as I’d like; I have more time to listen to Escape Artists while working or commuting than to sit down with the concentration I feel the stories deserve), I don’t want to get bombarded with marginalia immediately afterwards by other readers. And I really don’t want to impose my opinion on future readers in such a way.
If I like a story or have problems with a story, I’ll seek out criticism about it, but I want it to remain separate. I think this is why the EA blogs have a better response than the stories here or at SH. The story always stays discrete, so the blog post and forums are much more of a scratch pad.
My suggestion would be to disable posting on stories all together. Then, simultaneously with or perhaps a day after posting a story, post a seed response in a separate entry. Designate a new category like Reader Response and make it clear that Art Goes Here and Criticism Goes Here.
Of course, I’ve got too much academia still running through my blood, and I like to couch my criticism from the comfort of my own pulpit, rather than down amongst the groundlings. I’d still probably just post criticism on my own blog like I do for EA stories (which reminds me . . .). But it would make me more likely to respond, and make me more likely to want to look at the reader responses even if I don’t respond (as I often peek in on the EA blog and forums).
16 • K. Tempest Bradford said:
November 25th, 2008 at 6:12 pm, permalink
Tablesaw and others,
per the suggestion of dividing the comments from the actual story, would encouraging discussion in the author spotlight work better for that? Or does it still feel too close because it’s an interview with the person who wrote the story?
17 • Layla said:
November 25th, 2008 at 6:25 pm, permalink
Hmm…! I generally try to comment on stories I liked, but I usually do it either at the author’s blog (if they have one) or directly to the author via email.
I suppose it always seemed to me more … personal, to do it that way. I want to make sure that the author sees my feedback, since it’s basically for them that I’m leaving it, as a token of appreciation — a sort of payment, if you will, for offering up their story for *my* enjoyment. I just feel much more comfortable leaving a comment at a personal blog or via email than posting on a busy site or registering on an unfamiliar forum just to leave a comment; it feels less public, more private, and I feel a little less shy that way than on a public forum.
I think I’ve probably been heavily influenced in my feedbacking style by all the years I’ve spent in small press/zine subculture and fandom, where middlemen in the form of editors and publishers don’t really exist, and it is considered polite and expected to thank the author directly for their story. Whether I’m reading amateur or pro fiction online, I try to take a few minutes to say “Thank you, I really enjoyed the story” if I liked it. And I feel more comfortable doing that in a semi-private setting than in a public one.
18 • Joe Sherry said:
November 25th, 2008 at 8:48 pm, permalink
As much as a publication can allow a forum for readers to comment, I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea of posting comments directly on the story where I expect the author may read the comments.
I say this in fully hypocrisy and knowledge that when I write about stories on my blog I get linked by the writer and sometimes a simple thanks for writing about the story…so what I do on the blog is the same as what the comments on a story would do.
If I didn’t blog about fiction, I might be more inclined to directly write about the stories on the provided forum, but I have another thought.
I’m not the sort of person who wants to be the first person to comment on something and if there are no discussions ongoing I am less likely to start one. For me, the lack of that discussion community is keeping me away from being part of a discussion community.
Weird.
19 • steve davidson said:
November 26th, 2008 at 9:29 am, permalink
I suspect an additional dynamic is at work (in addition to some good guesses that others have posted): most of the active participants on forums are folks who have some kind of an online presence in ‘the community’. Many are themselves aspiring writers.
I know when writing reviews for various sites that I am perhaps overly conscious of the fact that the author of the work being reviewed is staring over my shoulder. Word will get back to them. They have friends and a fan base and, if I’m unkind or ‘wrong’, I’ll be hearing from them in a manner that might negatively affect my own traffic.
In the old days – no such worries. This is not necessarily a bad thing – if I’m going to pan something, I’m more motivated to do it for what I think are the right reasons – reasons I can defend.
But I do suspect that the potential presence of the authors curtails meaningful commentary, as does the fact that the commentors themselves have intentions of submitting works to those same markets.
20 • Cat C. said:
November 26th, 2008 at 4:23 pm, permalink
I’ve left feedback on a few of the stories here, generally consisting of “Awesome! Loved the story!” or something along those lines. I usually leave that kind of feedback because I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving constructive criticism in a comment box or having a thoughtful discussion about something I just read. Consequently, I don’t feel like my comments are of much value to the author. It’s always great to hear that people love your work but getting 300 responses all with short, one sentence variants of “Sweet story!” seems kind of pointless. I dunno, maybe that’s just me.
21 • Clint Harris said:
November 26th, 2008 at 4:54 pm, permalink
I’m with Cat C. on this. There are some stories I’ve read here that have moved me, that really set the bar for what I think is the right (subjective term, I know) direction fantasy is moving in. I.e. Lisa Mantchev’s “The Girl with Blueberry Eyes”, and Berrien Henderson’s Ornithomancy/Auguries story are prime examples. I really like what Fantasy is showing off here, and rather than bust on more established magazines, I propose that the dead-tree publications learn from markets such as this and start looking for this calibre of fiction, as opposed to focusing on household names in the genre who are telling the same tired stories we read each month.
The reason I bring this up is thus: any trunk story by an established author will get some ink in Locus or other critics, but we don’t see as much of that for online magazines, especially considering at this stage of the game, online magazines are still waiting to have the pull of a dead-tree magazine. Sometimes you’ll see a phenomenal story from an online mag in an anthology or YB tome, or at least a mention. But how often do we see a Locus write up on an online story? Probably more often than not these days. Which is great news. I don’t agree that the format of the magazine reflects the quality of the work. Some of the best-loved stories of our times were printed in pulps or scribbled out on velum, pressed out in clay, and travel to millions as intangiable pieces of data via electronic pulses.
What’s my point? If critics aren’t diving into what is offered on the web as far as fiction goes, they are missing out. Comments can allow for some of that niche to be filled, but it can be a tad rude, or worse, writing up a professional style critique just a few inches below the original text. There ought to be a disconnect, a place where works can be discussed without looking like an attack. That’s why criticism appears in magazines like Locus, and not on the pages following the original text.
Plus, not everyone likes the chorus of opinion that follows, sometimes “Sweet story!” is enough, but sometimes it’s hard to say. We feel we should offer up more, to describe the level of emotion something has made us feel, but in the end that too falls flat. Or we feel ridiculous and fannish for our opinions.
Then we are left with silence.
22 • Cat C. said:
November 26th, 2008 at 5:30 pm, permalink
*pin drop*
:0)
23 • silviamg said:
November 28th, 2008 at 11:07 pm, permalink
I generally do not comment on the stories because like others said, it seems pointless to engage in a discussion on this sucks, this doesn’t suck. Unlike a TV show, where I might pop by every week to read people’s comments and reply, commenting on a short story seems to be a solitary experience. I can’t talk about actors, storyline, secondary characters. It’s just a short experience. What could I say? “Regarding The Call of Cthulhu I think it’s boring and dull and the monster sucks.” Ta-da, I’m done. Now if we were talking about Cthulhu Mythos in general maybe I would pop by to comment.
Some of the places where I have seen people comment on stories have been a bit snarky and it was the same people commenting over and over again. Neither option appeals too much to me. When I want to hear some analysis on a story I check the places that review fiction.
I can’t see myself being moved to comment online unless it is to ask for clarification, and then I would probably e-mail the person anyway. I might write a line on my blog saying “this is neat!” but that’s about it.
I can see how a rating system might be useful (just like a poll) to do a year end review and tell readers what the favourite stories of the year were.
Anyway, there you have my opinion!
24 • John O'Neill said:
November 29th, 2008 at 9:31 pm, permalink
I have to agree with Justine, upthread:
>I rarely comment on stories I read. I think it’s
>because it takes me a long time to digest them.
Non-fiction I frequently feel the urge to respond to immediately. Not so with fiction. I think Justine’s right – it takes a little longer to digest art than opinion.
- John
25 • Erika said:
December 1st, 2008 at 1:33 pm, permalink
For what it’s worth, reviews and comments have fallen off in the past year of my time in fanfiction also. It may be that the comment box just isn’t the fascinating shiny new toy it once was.
However, the forums on the fanfic site have an activity that seems to help prompt more comments. They formed a society for concrit writers. The group has a huge amount of fun that’s viewable to all forum users, but you can’t post there and join the fun chats and things unless you’re a member. To become a member, you have to write a certain number of rich, concrit-laden reviews yourself in a literate and coherent manner.
Otherwise I have no suggestions, but always did enjoy the reviews, even if they were in the OMG THATS KEWL vein. Who doesn’t like the occasional pat on the head?
26 • Fantasy Magazine » Spotlight: January Authors D. Elizabeth Wasden, Darren Speegle & Chantel Tattoli said:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:40 pm, permalink
[...] February 3rd, 2009permalink, jump to commentsA few months ago in an editorial, I asked why we don’t often see as many comments on our fiction as we do on our non-fiction. The answers, opinions, and suggestions our readers offered were very illuminating and much [...]
27 • Forexfires said:
August 21st, 2009 at 12:08 pm, permalink
Definitely worth the read