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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Think</title>
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	<link>http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/non-fiction/columns/thoughts-on-think/</link>
	<description>From Modern Mythcraft to Magical Surrealism</description>
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		<title>By: AccepancY</title>
		<link>http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/non-fiction/columns/thoughts-on-think/comment-page-1/#comment-14644</link>
		<dc:creator>AccepancY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 May 2010 07:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=1843#comment-14644</guid>
		<description>Благодарю! спс</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Благодарю! спс</p>
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		<title>By: NejikFans</title>
		<link>http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/non-fiction/columns/thoughts-on-think/comment-page-1/#comment-12292</link>
		<dc:creator>NejikFans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 16:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=1843#comment-12292</guid>
		<description>Спасибо за милое общество.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Спасибо за милое общество.</p>
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		<title>By: ComradeCanadia</title>
		<link>http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/non-fiction/columns/thoughts-on-think/comment-page-1/#comment-9801</link>
		<dc:creator>ComradeCanadia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=1843#comment-9801</guid>
		<description>Something as RP-specific as the think command is going to remain unique to MUDs for a long time. I played World of Warcraft obsessively for several years on an RP server, and the trick with that game is that the roleplay takes place despite the game, not -because- of the game. This remains true for pretty much every single MMOG out there. I could potentially see an MMOG implementing a command like think for roleplayers, but it&#039;s highly unlikely. I can&#039;t think of a single MMOG that actually caters to roleplayers. They&#039;ll make spaces for them, but the game design and game rules never really back up a roleplaying environment. It&#039;s why I feel RP on warcraft is completely futile. How do you create a compelling character when a banana heals a sucking chest wound?

A roleplay-intensive MMORPG would never really match what RPI muds have for a multitude of reasons. Even what that advertised itself for roleplayers and had pure RP commands like think (I&#039;d love to see a little thought bubble show up like in comics), there&#039;s no real way to keep a high level of roleplay outside of guilds. It&#039;s too easy for some omron to start screaming &quot;CHUCK NORRIS&quot; over and over again to ruin things. Enforcing roleplay in a game with couple hundred active players is a task and of its own. What about in a game with thousands, or even millions? I can&#039;t see it as being possible, though I&#039;d love to see someone -try- at least. Even getting there halfway could be an enjoyable gaming experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something as RP-specific as the think command is going to remain unique to MUDs for a long time. I played World of Warcraft obsessively for several years on an RP server, and the trick with that game is that the roleplay takes place despite the game, not -because- of the game. This remains true for pretty much every single MMOG out there. I could potentially see an MMOG implementing a command like think for roleplayers, but it&#8217;s highly unlikely. I can&#8217;t think of a single MMOG that actually caters to roleplayers. They&#8217;ll make spaces for them, but the game design and game rules never really back up a roleplaying environment. It&#8217;s why I feel RP on warcraft is completely futile. How do you create a compelling character when a banana heals a sucking chest wound?</p>
<p>A roleplay-intensive MMORPG would never really match what RPI muds have for a multitude of reasons. Even what that advertised itself for roleplayers and had pure RP commands like think (I&#8217;d love to see a little thought bubble show up like in comics), there&#8217;s no real way to keep a high level of roleplay outside of guilds. It&#8217;s too easy for some omron to start screaming &#8220;CHUCK NORRIS&#8221; over and over again to ruin things. Enforcing roleplay in a game with couple hundred active players is a task and of its own. What about in a game with thousands, or even millions? I can&#8217;t see it as being possible, though I&#8217;d love to see someone -try- at least. Even getting there halfway could be an enjoyable gaming experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/non-fiction/columns/thoughts-on-think/comment-page-1/#comment-9800</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 02:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=1843#comment-9800</guid>
		<description>I think that text is the only true medium for role play over the internet. Graphical games just aren&#039;t made in such a way as to promote true role play. There are no consequences, and no true rewards. Let&#039;s use World of Warcraft as an example, seeing as how most people are familiar with it to some degree. Even on a &quot;roleplay&quot; server there is little roleplaying going on. The constant intrusion of other people who are not rping breaks up the environment for those who are. Not to mention that in WoW, no matter what you do, or what you roleplay, you&#039;re still exactly like everyone else. 
    Now, in a mud your roleplay eventually takes you someplace, or that&#039;s the plan anyhow. Given time you may achieve things that other people&#039;s characters actually have to acknowledge, and at the end of the day, you have something to show for your time and effort. A character with it&#039;s own personality and achievements, something a lot closer to a real person than a graphical game can ever give you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that text is the only true medium for role play over the internet. Graphical games just aren&#8217;t made in such a way as to promote true role play. There are no consequences, and no true rewards. Let&#8217;s use World of Warcraft as an example, seeing as how most people are familiar with it to some degree. Even on a &#8220;roleplay&#8221; server there is little roleplaying going on. The constant intrusion of other people who are not rping breaks up the environment for those who are. Not to mention that in WoW, no matter what you do, or what you roleplay, you&#8217;re still exactly like everyone else.<br />
    Now, in a mud your roleplay eventually takes you someplace, or that&#8217;s the plan anyhow. Given time you may achieve things that other people&#8217;s characters actually have to acknowledge, and at the end of the day, you have something to show for your time and effort. A character with it&#8217;s own personality and achievements, something a lot closer to a real person than a graphical game can ever give you.</p>
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		<title>By: HunterKiller</title>
		<link>http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/non-fiction/columns/thoughts-on-think/comment-page-1/#comment-9799</link>
		<dc:creator>HunterKiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 01:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=1843#comment-9799</guid>
		<description>The think command for me is a one-sided way of communicating with the &quot;immortals&quot; (or &quot;imms&quot; or &quot;staff&quot;) of the game. I think plenty in my own head, playing a character who&#039;s usually very unlike my real self. What I choose to type in my think are things that are relevant for others to know, or so I think. :-) The mere fact that the market is so flooded with graphical games makes a game with scrolling text that much more powerful - it becomes a story or poem that literally writes itself before you, with you contributing a verse.

Ironically, I&#039;m actually a 3D artist working with the famous / infamous tool called &quot;maya&quot;, a very powerful and popular tool used in Hollywood in the entertainment and animation industries. I have a real passion for graphics, but Arm has a certain wicked power that these graphics can&#039;t seem to touch. Not because books have traditionally been more encouraged than video games and are often described as being &quot;better&quot; than the movies that so often imitate them, but because the text leaves the mind completely open to fill in the blanks. A truly frightening concept for anyone to realize, the extremes of just about any emotion we could have during the unfolding of a story is fueled by images created by ourselves - nature has nothing on imagination. I have a complete, crystal-clear picture in my mind of what the land of Zalanthas looks like, buildings, weather, moons, villages, etc. Even what some of the animals and clothing and weapons look like as well.

While it may at times be more cumbersome to type and read so much than a graphical game, demand more of a commitment to play once you&#039;re in the game than a traditional first person shoot-em-up, Arm is something that stays with you long after you quit playing. It becomes a story you wrote yourself just begging for sequels.

The above is the reason I continually play, through marriage, kids, crazy busy job schedules and family &amp; friend drama. It&#039;s also what makes things you don&#039;t like about the game even that much more tolerable. Features such as this &quot;think&quot; command are a tiny sliver of the game and represents one of many things that root themselves in each player&#039;s motivation to keep coming back.

I think if the boob imms (spoken of above) were left to keep running the game, it would&#039;ve likely shut down long ago. Consistent, dedicated administration and policy making with a true appreciation for fairness has built this game from average to great, and while features such as this &quot;think&quot; command are great role playing tools and make the game even that much more fun to play, it&#039;s a mere shadow of the real magick Arm has, at least what it&#039;s brought me.

- HK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The think command for me is a one-sided way of communicating with the &#8220;immortals&#8221; (or &#8220;imms&#8221; or &#8220;staff&#8221;) of the game. I think plenty in my own head, playing a character who&#8217;s usually very unlike my real self. What I choose to type in my think are things that are relevant for others to know, or so I think. <img src='http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  The mere fact that the market is so flooded with graphical games makes a game with scrolling text that much more powerful &#8211; it becomes a story or poem that literally writes itself before you, with you contributing a verse.</p>
<p>Ironically, I&#8217;m actually a 3D artist working with the famous / infamous tool called &#8220;maya&#8221;, a very powerful and popular tool used in Hollywood in the entertainment and animation industries. I have a real passion for graphics, but Arm has a certain wicked power that these graphics can&#8217;t seem to touch. Not because books have traditionally been more encouraged than video games and are often described as being &#8220;better&#8221; than the movies that so often imitate them, but because the text leaves the mind completely open to fill in the blanks. A truly frightening concept for anyone to realize, the extremes of just about any emotion we could have during the unfolding of a story is fueled by images created by ourselves &#8211; nature has nothing on imagination. I have a complete, crystal-clear picture in my mind of what the land of Zalanthas looks like, buildings, weather, moons, villages, etc. Even what some of the animals and clothing and weapons look like as well.</p>
<p>While it may at times be more cumbersome to type and read so much than a graphical game, demand more of a commitment to play once you&#8217;re in the game than a traditional first person shoot-em-up, Arm is something that stays with you long after you quit playing. It becomes a story you wrote yourself just begging for sequels.</p>
<p>The above is the reason I continually play, through marriage, kids, crazy busy job schedules and family &amp; friend drama. It&#8217;s also what makes things you don&#8217;t like about the game even that much more tolerable. Features such as this &#8220;think&#8221; command are a tiny sliver of the game and represents one of many things that root themselves in each player&#8217;s motivation to keep coming back.</p>
<p>I think if the boob imms (spoken of above) were left to keep running the game, it would&#8217;ve likely shut down long ago. Consistent, dedicated administration and policy making with a true appreciation for fairness has built this game from average to great, and while features such as this &#8220;think&#8221; command are great role playing tools and make the game even that much more fun to play, it&#8217;s a mere shadow of the real magick Arm has, at least what it&#8217;s brought me.</p>
<p>- HK</p>
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		<title>By: DustMight</title>
		<link>http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/non-fiction/columns/thoughts-on-think/comment-page-1/#comment-9798</link>
		<dc:creator>DustMight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 00:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=1843#comment-9798</guid>
		<description>Cat is right on here in all regards - think has allowed for an immersive world to become even more immersive.

Text games that are role-play required do offer that &quot;textual space&quot; that you can&#039;t find anywhere else - it&#039;s like the best of the pen and paper games of old, only better because you can&#039;t guess what the other player is really up to.
 
I do hope text based games featuring high quality role play stick around for a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cat is right on here in all regards &#8211; think has allowed for an immersive world to become even more immersive.</p>
<p>Text games that are role-play required do offer that &#8220;textual space&#8221; that you can&#8217;t find anywhere else &#8211; it&#8217;s like the best of the pen and paper games of old, only better because you can&#8217;t guess what the other player is really up to.</p>
<p>I do hope text based games featuring high quality role play stick around for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Henderson</title>
		<link>http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/non-fiction/columns/thoughts-on-think/comment-page-1/#comment-9797</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Henderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=1843#comment-9797</guid>
		<description>I should think the advent of mobile devices would open up new opportunities for MUDs.  It is not so far from texting or tweeting on your phone to having an exchange with an NPC.  Certainly seems more suited to the small screens than graphics-intensive games, and the &quot;turn-based&quot; nature of it seems to me a good fit for gaming on the move.  I&#039;ll admit I&#039;ve not dived into a MUD yet (I just don&#039;t feel I have the time to really get into it), but is it something one could play, for example on the iPhone&#039;s safari browser?  Is it something that could be adopted to accept input/output via email or text messaging?

I&#039;m surprised interactive fiction games haven&#039;t been better supported by mobile game companies as well.  I&#039;m tempted to hack my iPhone just to play Zork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should think the advent of mobile devices would open up new opportunities for MUDs.  It is not so far from texting or tweeting on your phone to having an exchange with an NPC.  Certainly seems more suited to the small screens than graphics-intensive games, and the &#8220;turn-based&#8221; nature of it seems to me a good fit for gaming on the move.  I&#8217;ll admit I&#8217;ve not dived into a MUD yet (I just don&#8217;t feel I have the time to really get into it), but is it something one could play, for example on the iPhone&#8217;s safari browser?  Is it something that could be adopted to accept input/output via email or text messaging?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m surprised interactive fiction games haven&#8217;t been better supported by mobile game companies as well.  I&#8217;m tempted to hack my iPhone just to play Zork.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Wood</title>
		<link>http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/non-fiction/columns/thoughts-on-think/comment-page-1/#comment-9796</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=1843#comment-9796</guid>
		<description>I think a lot depends on what the game is trying to achieve.  Most graphic games are not trying achieve the level of immersion that a MUD (or in fact table top gaming) creates.  The pleasures are more surface level, and usually focus around caving in the head of the nearest bystander.

Some games do focus on storytelling and the results are a mixed bag.  While some games have achieved emotional power (Final Fantasy VII and X spring to mind) they have followed a model of &quot;go from A to B, hitting things along the way&quot; and you will be rewarded with a piece of story).  While, at their heights, emotional punches can be delivered, it&#039;s never going to be as strong as in a text roleplaying game because you&#039;re never truly playing the role, you&#039;re just following along.

Recently some western graphic RPGs have challenged that.  Specifically I&#039;m thinking of Mass Effect and Fallout 3 (I own an Xbox 360, so that&#039;s my frame of reference).  Both these games have offered players a wide range of choice in their actions, and the actions they take do noticeably influence the story.  And in gaining that ability you do start to take on the role, because the nature of a character becomes important.  And while the implementation of these system still leaves a lot to be desired, (in both games you are mostly influencing sub-plot, not the main plot) I found Mass Effect to be a truly emotionally effective game.

As good as these two games are (and they are very good) in terms of allowing a player to influence a story, to interact with a story, to create a story, they&#039;re pitiful compared to a MUD or tabletop RPG, where instead of a set of programmed responses you&#039;re dealing with an infinitely more resourceful GM, someone who&#039;s able to adapt to the unexpected.  It&#039;s doubtful in fact, that they&#039;ll ever be able to touch them.

But graphic games will always be more popular.  I think it&#039;s sad but it&#039;s true.  So much less is required of a player with a graphic game (in terms of time, not money).  Less imagination is required, no rules need to be learned.  The experience is immediate.  It doesn&#039;t have the depth, but it is likely to be deep enough for most people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a lot depends on what the game is trying to achieve.  Most graphic games are not trying achieve the level of immersion that a MUD (or in fact table top gaming) creates.  The pleasures are more surface level, and usually focus around caving in the head of the nearest bystander.</p>
<p>Some games do focus on storytelling and the results are a mixed bag.  While some games have achieved emotional power (Final Fantasy VII and X spring to mind) they have followed a model of &#8220;go from A to B, hitting things along the way&#8221; and you will be rewarded with a piece of story).  While, at their heights, emotional punches can be delivered, it&#8217;s never going to be as strong as in a text roleplaying game because you&#8217;re never truly playing the role, you&#8217;re just following along.</p>
<p>Recently some western graphic RPGs have challenged that.  Specifically I&#8217;m thinking of Mass Effect and Fallout 3 (I own an Xbox 360, so that&#8217;s my frame of reference).  Both these games have offered players a wide range of choice in their actions, and the actions they take do noticeably influence the story.  And in gaining that ability you do start to take on the role, because the nature of a character becomes important.  And while the implementation of these system still leaves a lot to be desired, (in both games you are mostly influencing sub-plot, not the main plot) I found Mass Effect to be a truly emotionally effective game.</p>
<p>As good as these two games are (and they are very good) in terms of allowing a player to influence a story, to interact with a story, to create a story, they&#8217;re pitiful compared to a MUD or tabletop RPG, where instead of a set of programmed responses you&#8217;re dealing with an infinitely more resourceful GM, someone who&#8217;s able to adapt to the unexpected.  It&#8217;s doubtful in fact, that they&#8217;ll ever be able to touch them.</p>
<p>But graphic games will always be more popular.  I think it&#8217;s sad but it&#8217;s true.  So much less is required of a player with a graphic game (in terms of time, not money).  Less imagination is required, no rules need to be learned.  The experience is immediate.  It doesn&#8217;t have the depth, but it is likely to be deep enough for most people.</p>
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		<title>By: Gonzo Granzeau</title>
		<link>http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/non-fiction/columns/thoughts-on-think/comment-page-1/#comment-9795</link>
		<dc:creator>Gonzo Granzeau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/?p=1843#comment-9795</guid>
		<description>You have to go back one further step than MUDs and MUCKs to understand the implications of text versus graphical.  Go back to table top RPGs.  In those, you had a human giving the ultimate in quality control of the adventure too.

Simple questions really:  What does &quot;the dungeon has an oppressive air&quot; look like?  Could I represent this through visual description alone?  Could a picture represent this alone?  Or would you need a dark thrumming in the distance, which is more felt than heard?  Can you do this through a game?

In the end, no, you can&#039;t do all this through a game.  This is why sometimes the game instructs the player to be thinking &#039;You think something is lording over this dungeon with an iron fist&#039; or something to that effect.  The idea being is that there is a reason for the original text, and you want the player to be thinking down the path of &#039;plot&#039;.

Getting players to follow plot is hard.  Why do you do anything in WoW for instance?  I mean seriously, you kill hundreds of creatures with little to no reason why.  So, you imply &#039;why&#039;, through little snippets, stupid emotions by the mobs, etc, but by saying simple things like &#039;You think...&#039; you can give a real reason why something is happening, from the player character with years of combat experience, without relying on the observation skills of a 14 year old unexperienced boy.

BTW, this goes completely wrong in graphical games far more often, like when an NPC accidently walks through an object so you can&#039;t see them, or someone disconnects, etc.  It&#039;s less common in old school text adventures, but as the immersion level steps up, there will be more technical challenges that will pull people out of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to go back one further step than MUDs and MUCKs to understand the implications of text versus graphical.  Go back to table top RPGs.  In those, you had a human giving the ultimate in quality control of the adventure too.</p>
<p>Simple questions really:  What does &#8220;the dungeon has an oppressive air&#8221; look like?  Could I represent this through visual description alone?  Could a picture represent this alone?  Or would you need a dark thrumming in the distance, which is more felt than heard?  Can you do this through a game?</p>
<p>In the end, no, you can&#8217;t do all this through a game.  This is why sometimes the game instructs the player to be thinking &#8216;You think something is lording over this dungeon with an iron fist&#8217; or something to that effect.  The idea being is that there is a reason for the original text, and you want the player to be thinking down the path of &#8216;plot&#8217;.</p>
<p>Getting players to follow plot is hard.  Why do you do anything in WoW for instance?  I mean seriously, you kill hundreds of creatures with little to no reason why.  So, you imply &#8216;why&#8217;, through little snippets, stupid emotions by the mobs, etc, but by saying simple things like &#8216;You think&#8230;&#8217; you can give a real reason why something is happening, from the player character with years of combat experience, without relying on the observation skills of a 14 year old unexperienced boy.</p>
<p>BTW, this goes completely wrong in graphical games far more often, like when an NPC accidently walks through an object so you can&#8217;t see them, or someone disconnects, etc.  It&#8217;s less common in old school text adventures, but as the immersion level steps up, there will be more technical challenges that will pull people out of the world.</p>
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